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	<title>Comments on: Mahabali, Ramayan, Aryans, and Dravidians</title>
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	<link>http://www.semanticoverload.com/2009/11/18/mahabali-ramayan/</link>
	<description>The world through my prisms</description>
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		<title>By: JPatnaik</title>
		<link>http://www.semanticoverload.com/2009/11/18/mahabali-ramayan/comment-page-1/#comment-943</link>
		<dc:creator>JPatnaik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>History is story written by the winning side. If you consider Ramayan is history, you know its worth. As regards the Arya Dravida theory, it is enough for the silly web designers to learn that the real Indian civilization is civilization that prospered in the plains of rivers Indus, Ganges and Saraswati, with branches in south India.Violent tribals from Iran crossed mountains and ravaged the prosperous Indian civilization. Many were murdered and vast populace moved south. Some surrendered and stayed as the coolies of those sub human plunderers. Now it is for you to decide whether you are genetically closer to Iranians or Indians. Forget the theory of Aryan or Dravidian. Whoever won those dats, called himself Arya or civilized.. You fools donot know that Assyrians call themselves ASURS and Syrians call themselves SURAs. How on Indian soil Sura and Asura fight was going on?? Have some common sense, do some reading before writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>History is story written by the winning side. If you consider Ramayan is history, you know its worth. As regards the Arya Dravida theory, it is enough for the silly web designers to learn that the real Indian civilization is civilization that prospered in the plains of rivers Indus, Ganges and Saraswati, with branches in south India.Violent tribals from Iran crossed mountains and ravaged the prosperous Indian civilization. Many were murdered and vast populace moved south. Some surrendered and stayed as the coolies of those sub human plunderers. Now it is for you to decide whether you are genetically closer to Iranians or Indians. Forget the theory of Aryan or Dravidian. Whoever won those dats, called himself Arya or civilized.. You fools donot know that Assyrians call themselves ASURS and Syrians call themselves SURAs. How on Indian soil Sura and Asura fight was going on?? Have some common sense, do some reading before writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Piyush</title>
		<link>http://www.semanticoverload.com/2009/11/18/mahabali-ramayan/comment-page-1/#comment-859</link>
		<dc:creator>Piyush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Sep 2011 13:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.semanticoverload.com/?p=356#comment-859</guid>
		<description>Hi Sematic Overload,

It has been an year since Vamsi posted a comment, could you please make time and try reflecting your thoughts on his argument?

Awaiting your reply eagerly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sematic Overload,</p>
<p>It has been an year since Vamsi posted a comment, could you please make time and try reflecting your thoughts on his argument?</p>
<p>Awaiting your reply eagerly.</p>
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		<title>By: a dilettante</title>
		<link>http://www.semanticoverload.com/2009/11/18/mahabali-ramayan/comment-page-1/#comment-771</link>
		<dc:creator>a dilettante</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 May 2011 11:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.semanticoverload.com/?p=356#comment-771</guid>
		<description>How would u chronologize Indian history which includes dravidian,aryan,epics written,vedas,divine forms the British era?have ne archive which wud help...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How would u chronologize Indian history which includes dravidian,aryan,epics written,vedas,divine forms the British era?have ne archive which wud help&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: dham</title>
		<link>http://www.semanticoverload.com/2009/11/18/mahabali-ramayan/comment-page-1/#comment-510</link>
		<dc:creator>dham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 08:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I do like the Asuras=Dieties bit which for most part is true, an interesting hypothesis I came across while reading &#039;The Shiva Trilogy,&#039; not half as good a book as it could have been but liked the spin it had on Gods and Dieties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do like the Asuras=Dieties bit which for most part is true, an interesting hypothesis I came across while reading &#8216;The Shiva Trilogy,&#8217; not half as good a book as it could have been but liked the spin it had on Gods and Dieties.</p>
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		<title>By: raju</title>
		<link>http://www.semanticoverload.com/2009/11/18/mahabali-ramayan/comment-page-1/#comment-508</link>
		<dc:creator>raju</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Oct 2010 21:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>hi ,

Dravidian people were forced to migrate from north to south india. The khajua in fathepur , UP , where in ramlila , ravana is workshipped and there are 118 shiva shrines. moreover the people of this land are called DREDHOMAR .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi ,</p>
<p>Dravidian people were forced to migrate from north to south india. The khajua in fathepur , UP , where in ramlila , ravana is workshipped and there are 118 shiva shrines. moreover the people of this land are called DREDHOMAR .</p>
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		<title>By: vamsi</title>
		<link>http://www.semanticoverload.com/2009/11/18/mahabali-ramayan/comment-page-1/#comment-506</link>
		<dc:creator>vamsi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 06:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thangarajan noted that it was impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different

Below point mentions Asiatic North Indians and Asiatic South Indians starts mixing more than 40000 years ago,well before any Aryan invasion or migration started according to british imperialists. It also states castes grow out of the culture well later these two races came into existence. SO Dravidians and aryans is a myth. How come dravidians who do not have a caste and ravana being a dravidian was a brahmin.

Read more: Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study - The Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aryan-Dravidian-divide-a-myth-Study/articleshow/5053274.cms#ixzz11q3uQ7eR</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thangarajan noted that it was impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different</p>
<p>Below point mentions Asiatic North Indians and Asiatic South Indians starts mixing more than 40000 years ago,well before any Aryan invasion or migration started according to british imperialists. It also states castes grow out of the culture well later these two races came into existence. SO Dravidians and aryans is a myth. How come dravidians who do not have a caste and ravana being a dravidian was a brahmin.</p>
<p>Read more: Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study &#8211; The Times of India <a href="http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aryan-Dravidian-divide-a-myth-Study/articleshow/5053274.cms#ixzz11q3uQ7eR" rel="nofollow">http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Aryan-Dravidian-divide-a-myth-Study/articleshow/5053274.cms#ixzz11q3uQ7eR</a></p>
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		<title>By: Semantic Overload</title>
		<link>http://www.semanticoverload.com/2009/11/18/mahabali-ramayan/comment-page-1/#comment-327</link>
		<dc:creator>Semantic Overload</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.semanticoverload.com/?p=356#comment-327</guid>
		<description>@Balaji Thank you for your comment. It is unfortunate that it did not have any constructive criticism or content for me to respond to or start a meaningful discussion. However, there were a few clarifications requested by you in the form of questions. Let me proceed to do that here:
First, I do not believe that Rama was a historical personality; much like I believe that neither was Mahabali. Note that I refer to both Ramayan and Vamana Purana as mythological texts, implying that they are a work of fiction. However, in my post, I argue that they are fictionalized versions of historical episodes that did occur in the subcontinent. As far as the Aryan/Dravidian racial divide goes, I did present the research conducted by scientists from CCMB in India and Harvard University and MIT in the United States (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/genetics/article6846424.ece&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;details here&lt;/a&gt;) as evidence of Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and Ancestral South Indian (ASI) divide in the subcontinental population.

Second, as far as the Aryan Invasion Theory (AVT) goes, the canonical theory was that the Aryans came from central Asia and settled in India. This theory was proposed by the British to account for how advanced the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) was. The canonical AVT assumed that the ruins of the IVC were in fact the ruins of an Aryan race because they could not fathom that a race indigenous to a colony could have had such high levels of advancement predating the colonists (in this case, the British) themselves! So in the canonical sense, the AVT has already been discredited.

Coming back to my claim about Aryan people vs. Dravidian people, I never claimed that the Aryan people were from outside the greater Indian peninsula. I only claimed that there existed two separate groups of people and they were in conflict (more on the nature of the conflict to follow). Why do I claim that? Well, if there is no such thing as Aryan people vs. Dravidian people, then how do you account for the ANI/ASI divide, or the regional celebration of the ascension of Mahabali (and other observations that I will omit in favor of brevity)? Interestingly, while all of India is regarded as being Hindu (at least historically), the ASI/ANI divide indicates that the people did not see each other as having a common group identity. So when you have different groups with different identities occupying the same geographical area, you will see conflict. This conflict may be cultural, social, or military. Coming back to the the story of Mahabali and Ramayan, it is quite possible that social/cultural domination of ANI over ASI people formed the basis of these myths. However, a hero, a villan, and a grand stand/battle makes for much more interesting tale (and a much better tool of propaganda) than an account of socio-cultural domination that was decades (if not centuries) in the making. So perhaps there never really was a military invasion, nor was there a bloody battle. It is all perhaps a myth, based on real events nevertheless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Balaji Thank you for your comment. It is unfortunate that it did not have any constructive criticism or content for me to respond to or start a meaningful discussion. However, there were a few clarifications requested by you in the form of questions. Let me proceed to do that here:<br />
First, I do not believe that Rama was a historical personality; much like I believe that neither was Mahabali. Note that I refer to both Ramayan and Vamana Purana as mythological texts, implying that they are a work of fiction. However, in my post, I argue that they are fictionalized versions of historical episodes that did occur in the subcontinent. As far as the Aryan/Dravidian racial divide goes, I did present the research conducted by scientists from CCMB in India and Harvard University and MIT in the United States (<a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/genetics/article6846424.ece" rel="nofollow">details here</a>) as evidence of Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and Ancestral South Indian (ASI) divide in the subcontinental population.</p>
<p>Second, as far as the Aryan Invasion Theory (AVT) goes, the canonical theory was that the Aryans came from central Asia and settled in India. This theory was proposed by the British to account for how advanced the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) was. The canonical AVT assumed that the ruins of the IVC were in fact the ruins of an Aryan race because they could not fathom that a race indigenous to a colony could have had such high levels of advancement predating the colonists (in this case, the British) themselves! So in the canonical sense, the AVT has already been discredited.</p>
<p>Coming back to my claim about Aryan people vs. Dravidian people, I never claimed that the Aryan people were from outside the greater Indian peninsula. I only claimed that there existed two separate groups of people and they were in conflict (more on the nature of the conflict to follow). Why do I claim that? Well, if there is no such thing as Aryan people vs. Dravidian people, then how do you account for the ANI/ASI divide, or the regional celebration of the ascension of Mahabali (and other observations that I will omit in favor of brevity)? Interestingly, while all of India is regarded as being Hindu (at least historically), the ASI/ANI divide indicates that the people did not see each other as having a common group identity. So when you have different groups with different identities occupying the same geographical area, you will see conflict. This conflict may be cultural, social, or military. Coming back to the the story of Mahabali and Ramayan, it is quite possible that social/cultural domination of ANI over ASI people formed the basis of these myths. However, a hero, a villan, and a grand stand/battle makes for much more interesting tale (and a much better tool of propaganda) than an account of socio-cultural domination that was decades (if not centuries) in the making. So perhaps there never really was a military invasion, nor was there a bloody battle. It is all perhaps a myth, based on real events nevertheless.</p>
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		<title>By: Balaji</title>
		<link>http://www.semanticoverload.com/2009/11/18/mahabali-ramayan/comment-page-1/#comment-326</link>
		<dc:creator>Balaji</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 08:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.semanticoverload.com/?p=356#comment-326</guid>
		<description>Dear Sir, I managed to come across this wonderful crap of yours. This is the n-th time I am hearing of this poorly concocted myths. Alright then, if Rama was an Aryan, Ravana a Dravidian, and that the Aryan/Dravidian racial myth is also true (according to you), so do you agree that Rama is a true historical personality? Why then you people say Rama was mythical character? How then the British myth called &#039;Aryan Invasion&#039; holds true? Please clarify!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Sir, I managed to come across this wonderful crap of yours. This is the n-th time I am hearing of this poorly concocted myths. Alright then, if Rama was an Aryan, Ravana a Dravidian, and that the Aryan/Dravidian racial myth is also true (according to you), so do you agree that Rama is a true historical personality? Why then you people say Rama was mythical character? How then the British myth called &#8216;Aryan Invasion&#8217; holds true? Please clarify!</p>
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